The answer is shorter from: there is no Y Hg solely responsible for the West Asian component. But, it clearly did.In any case, we now have five autosomal data points in Europe from ~5kya with no "West_Asian"; we know that R-M269 was present in Europe during the following millennium and we'll sooner or later test either Beaker or post-Beaker individuals from Europe. IMO it spread both into South East Europe by land mostly, but also by boat to South West Iberia, and then kicked off the Bell Beaker revolution. There is no _reason_ why anyone should breed with someone more than with anyone else. Furthermore, R1b exists in Africa, and the only Eurasian affinity of significance there is "Southern" (excluding groups closest to West Asia, such as Egyptians). Then there are "boundary conditions" at either end --- and the "ends" must be reasonably large to achieve meaningful cultural characteristics. Really, we need DNA from Megalithic and Bell Beaker sites of the British Isles. The Late Copper Age is regarded as a continuous culture system connecting the Upper Rhine valley to the western edge of the Carpathian Basin. ?Why is it that dominating Western Europe is a problem, but dominating South Siberia, Xinjiang and the Sahel is not? Or at least from the East along the African littoral? Brahui (SW Pakistan) - 5.30%8. Craftsmanship was transmitted by inheritance in certain families living in the vicinity of abundant resources of high-quality flint. There is virtually no evidence in Sardinia of external contacts in the early second millennia, apart from late Beakers and close parallels between Bonnannaro pottery and that of the North Italian Polada culture. Apparently the Church caught hell trying to suppress polygamy. The introductory phase of the manufacture and use of flint daggers, around 2350 BC, must all in all be characterised as a period of social change. 148, Issue. Title: Bell Beaker; Date Created: 6th–7th century; Physical Dimensions: Overall: 3 11/16 x 2 3/16 in. Another group found on Boscombe Down (nr Stonehenge) came up with readings that could either be from Wales or Brittany. They were used as status display amongst disparate elites. A lesser known beaker burial from only 20 mi away (found in the 80's) had similar gravegoods, including gold hair tresses, and his metalwork was also from the same areas. Genetically to me they look like they came recently from the north, not Portugal. "Tortoise and the hare?Orange tortoise moving slowly up the Danube and along the southern med coast expanding roughly east to west.Blue hare sails around the Atlantic coast, introduces cattle to the foragers creating Atlantic cowboys who expand roughly west to east.Meet somewhere in the middle. Boats good enough for serious mobility of communities was available already thousands of years before. 2 and 3 of the paper we are discussing - quite the opposite. As a third component counts the indigenous Carpathian Makó/Kosihy-Caka culture. "which is absent in one of its groups of highest frequency. I am tired of hearing of the Basques. Early papers publishing results on European-wide Y-DNA marker frequencies, such as those of Semino (2000) and Rosser (2000), correlated haplogroup R1b-M269 with the earliest episodes of European colonization by anatomically modern humans (AMH). In fact, three of the agricultural and five of the Mesolithic U5 samples are nodes with modern samples downstream. There is no movement from Europe to West Asia which would have made R1b so prevalent there. A distinctive ‘barbed wire’ pottery decoration is thought to have migrated through central Italy first. A further example of how explosive the Bell Beaker expansion was into different territories, and of their extensive local admixture, is shown by the unsuccessful attempt by Olalde et al. (2018) to obtain an origin of the EEF source for all Beaker groups (excluding Iberian Beakers): Beakers arrived in Ireland around 2500 BC and fell out of use around 1700 BC (Needham 1996). The mechanism of its expansion is a topic of long-standing debate, with support for both cultural diffusion and human migration. So In my opinion the R1b is related to Mediterranean, the Western kind which is high in Basques and all the Atlantic countries. The Bell-Beaker culture (sometimes shortened to Beaker culture, Beaker people, or Beaker folk), c. 2800 – 1800 BCE, is the term for a widely scattered ‘archaeological culture’ of prehistoric western Europe starting in the late Neolithic or Chalcolithic and running into the early Bronze Age. However blood type "B" allele is found in the North Eastern European- Mesolithic & Corded Ware, Hunter Gatherers of the … "Bell Beaker pottery spread across western and central Europe beginning around 2750 BCE before disappearing between 2200-1800 BCE. Dr.Rob said: And the western European sub-clades of R1b are ‘downstream’ to those in W Asia, hence ‘younger’; whatever Busby or others might say about the STR diversity.No this is a clear example of a misunderstanding, West Asian R1b-L23x(L51) aren’t upstream of European clades, they simply do not have the L51 mutation, it doesn’t mean that they do not have any other downstream SNP that might be sibling to the L51 mutation. Seems like people will never give up on the idea of R1b being European. -Basques have R-M269 and lack the West Asian component. Just a comment regarding the shape of Beaker skulls. I won't be at all surprised if Beaker samples turn up substantially "West Asian" in autosomal ancestryThe fact that the farmer was so distinct creates an interesting dynamic. The conundrum I see with the K12b Gedrosia component is that it is high in comparison to Caucasian (perhaps better termed Anatolian/Iranian/Caucasian) only at the Atlantic and in Western Scandinavia, and especially there where neolithic components (Caucasian and SW Asian) are very low. However, a larger study by Roostalu et al. Three of them were carbon dated to the first half of the 3rd millennium BC. And the further back you get the more misleading they become. pconroy/ and R-M269 Interesting ideas. East Germany and Poland became Communist because of Russian occupation.Then, it's LBK vs. La Hoguette (rather than Cardium) - now west of the Rhine instead of east of Poland. Dienekes said:For the same reason that R1b is the dominant haplogroup in Mestizos who have a majority Amerindian autosomal ancestry: male-biased gene flow.Well per the latest study published by Manichaiku et al(2012) at K=3 Mexicans are 47% Caucasian, and 48% Native American. Mobility and local evolution during the 3rd millennium BC, The Bell Beaker Transition in Europe, Laure Salanova, Maria Pilar Prieto Martínez, Oxbow Books. The cultural means by which a novel y haplogroup could become dominant without greatly affecting the pre-existing overall make-up of a population is if a foreign population carrying the y haplogroup are able to establish themselves as the chiefly class and practise extensive polygamy generation after generation. Also for those who are considering genetic drift, if Basques were drifting in their Y-DNA Haplogroups, then one would expect the frequency of R1b-M269 to have increased or decreased significantly in the last 1500 years, given the rapid population growth. Coarse pottery typically decorated with twisted cord impressions, and sometimes with other types of impressions or incisions. Towards the Later Bronze Age the sites move to potentially fortifiable hilltops, suggesting a more “clan”-type structure. Or at least from the East along the African littoral? They were subsequently widely adopted in other parts of Europe (Schuhmacher 2002), possibly showing a change in the technology of warfare. In Porto Torrão, at inner Alentejo (southern Portugal), a similar vessel was found having a date ultimately corrected to between 2823 and 2658 BC. As for the settlements and monuments within the Iberian context, Beaker pottery is generally found in association with local Chalcolithic material and appears most of all as an “intrusion” from the 3rd millennium in burial monuments whose origin may go back to the 4th or 5th millennium BC. The bulk of each culture, was in fact founded by not migrants into local community but entirely new communities migrating into new places. All pottery was locally made. More recently, data and calculations from Myres et al. The Bell Beaker package. Dienekes:Have you had a chance to see this new paper from Anatole A. Klyosov on R1b?, Any one had a chance to read this paper: The dear blog readers here seem to be unaware that 90% R1b high Tchadians and Northcameroonians have 0% eurasianThe facts we have are: 1/Westasian component is deeply connected with the Northeuropean component2/Westasian component seems to be of a late neolithic developmentSo Basques could be very high in R1b yet lacking the westasian component because Basques are the result of an earlier migration before the breakup of the westasian component and its "brother" the northeuropean one, so their R1b is portrayed by their Northeuropean score, still drift theory still stands very well to explain that a folk high in X Y-DNA (with this X Y-DNA usually connected with A autosomal component) could be deficious in A autosomal component if we remember that 95%R1b-high Cameroonians not only lack the westasian (or even its brother northeuropean component) component but they even lack any eurasian component at all. newtoboard, No one in their right mind would say R1b is not Asian. Maybe it was that long journey by boat that did it. The initial moves from the Tagus estuary were maritime. If you look at the behaviour of Gaelic chiefs in Ireland even after conversion to Christianity you see a pattern of them serially marrying and divorcing many wives and also fathering children by other women and that all their male heirs, legitimate and illegitimate, compete with each other for recognition as their father's successor. Not enough has been done as yet regarding dna in very ancient British populations, unfortunately. Here the local sulpharsenide ores were smelted to produce the first copper axes used in Britain and Ireland. It almost seems like West European is a "mixture" of West Asian (original Bell Bakers) and East European(Corded Ware) just tending more towards East European. That is not what I would call majority Amerindian autosomal ancestry. May I remind you that until a few weeks ago all of pre-Neolithic European mt-DNA was U, and then a couple of H appeared in Magdalenian Cantabria. "Parachutes weren't around back then, but boats were. Two great coexisting and separate Central European cultures – the Corded Ware with its regional groups and the Eastern Group of the Bell Beaker Culture – form the background to the Late Copper Age and Early Bronze Age. More recent extensive DNA evidence, however, suggests a significant replacement of earlier populations. Overall, all these elements (Iberian-derived maritime ceramic styles, AOC and AOO ceramic styles, and ‘eastern’ burial ritual symbolism) appear to have first fused in the Lower Rhine region. The pattern of movements was diverse and complicated, along the Atlantic coast and the northern Mediterranean coast, and sometimes also far inland. Also, there seems to be a bit of a tendency of a northeastern entry into Europe - not a Mediterranean one. The LN I metalwork is distributed throughout most of Denmark, but a concentration of early copper and gold coincides with this core region, hence suggesting a connection between Beakers and the introduction of metallurgy. A third building phase followed directly and lasted to about 1300 BC, after which the site was covered with layers of stone and clay, apparently deliberately, and abandoned. The only known single bell-shaped glass in eastern Sicily was found in Syracuse. The Bell Beaker people, for example, were considered to have been metal pro- spectors, itinerant tinkers, or even warriors (Gerhardt, 1978). (2015) concluded that R1b was very likely spread into Europe from the Pontic-Caspian steppe after 3,000 BCE by the Yamna people, putative Proto-Indo-Europeans under the Kurgan hypothesis. Something on "Drift":There was a simple computer experiment with populations that start with 2 haplogroups. The new international trade routes opened by the Beaker people became firmly established and the culture was succeeded by a number of Bronze Age cultures, among them the Únětice culture in Central Europe, the Elp culture and Hilversum culture in the Netherlands, the Atlantic Bronze Age in the British Isles and the Atlantic coast of Europe, and by the Nordic Bronze Age, a culture of Scandinavia and northernmost Germany-Poland.